Fellow guildmembers,

Lately things haven't been going to well for us, we had a major member loss, our GM left and most of his officers. Some of us decided to stay and try and rebuild this guild back to its former glory.

But as it seems right now, we are stuck. Recruits are not comming in fast enough for us to be able to accomplish the goals we have set out to do. We have only been able to have 2 raids so far since the majority of our members left, and to be honest the will was there, but due to the lack of certain classes we just could not progress the way we did before.

But still we didn't gave up our hopes, untill now. Last night we had a raid scheduled (wednesday 18-7) and about nobody showed up. I am not going to blaim anybody for that. I don't see the point of pointing fingers at each other anyway. But the fact remains that people have been whispering the officers about when the raid would be and they have also said they would be there. But as it turns out people didn't show up. This could be because we do not have a raid sign up page wich is working right now, even so people knew that we were going to raid last night, they asked the officers about it and it was in the guild message of the day.

Now I have read some post, and people are disapointed, I am no shame in that. I feel right now that people again will leave because we are just not getting anywere soon enough, and I for one don't want us to fall apart again. What I am saying is that we should stick togheter wheter in this guild or another...

So here we are again presented with the fact that we might loose members again, and if that would happen I am very sure that this would be the defenitive end of Illuminati.

However... there is a solution

Me and Douglas have had a conversation with another guild, a guild wich has just started out with Karazahn, they are looking to recruit more members in order to start a second Karazahn team and eventually move towards the 25 man content. This guild is willing to take all of us in, they accept the fact that along our members who raid also people will join who are casual.

Like us they have a lot of casuals to, and as much as we wanted to be a semi hardcore raiding guild we never were, maybe that is for the best to, because I dont think that you guys would choose an epic above on of your friends. And that is also a big part of being hardcore-ish that you play for your gear and for most people everything else comes after their gear.

As I was saying, they have a lot of casuals but there is also a core group wich wants to raid on a regular base of 4 times a week, meaning that both casuals and raiders would be in a guild wich provides plesure for both.

They want to provide a friendly enviroment in wich members can raid without having the pressure of progress, and this is something I think that most of us want as well.

The reason why I think we should join forces with them is that they have the members we are lacking right now, and we have the expierence they need to get through Karazahn. So that togheter we can finally march again towards Gruul and kick his ass. They use zero sum dkp, wich would be the dkp system we were going to use eventually, in my opionion it is the most fair dkp system.

So I want you guys to think about this, because we are in this togheter, and we should stick togheter, we are provided with the oppertunity to stay togheter and make a big step towards raiding again and being in a nice friendly guild.

Illuminati as a guild will stop to excist, but that is just a name, in the end what makes a guild are its members.

I will hope to see your comments on this as soon as possible so that we can make a decission wich most of us support and if you have any questions at all plz feel free to ask.

the guild I am talking about is Lazarus

First thing i think is NO


But not raiding is also a no so i'm in a doubt. I really wanna raid again and make progres.

second the dkp
_ Does theire dkp set to zero as we join? Couse i realy want my t4 items 1 time.

Are ther gonna be officers from us officers in there?

How many groups will there be eventualy?

And third but not last least,
Seen this kind of mixed guild 2 times before and 2 times it didnt worked,
there is always a leader wich ego is to big, (hope you can understand this bad english 2 kapteins op 1 schip gaat niet).

And how far are they with kara now?

just the first few things i think about it.


now just wanted to here answer but also someone else as me!!!!

just 1 more question why not make total new guild with them togehter totla new start so that we are not the intruders with them and we will never feel so??

About the DKP, they just started in Karazahn so they havent had chance to build up much anyway and a lot of us allready have a lot of gear from Karazahn wich they do not have. They said that they would treat us as equals so maybe something can be worked out about the dkp.

About the officers, there will be a few officers of us joining their officers.

There will be 2 raiding teams for Karazahn, wich will eventually become 1 raid for the 25 man content.

And as far as ego's, I dont have any trouble with stepping down from my rank and I dont think any of the other officers would have, yes there will be one captain on this schip, and that is going to be their Current GM.

And like I said they do not have much expierence in Karazahn they are stuck at the Curator, and with our expierence they want to clear it.

We have tried really, really hard to recruit enough to regularly raid & also look forward to Grul.

We haven't been able.

As rafe says, the guild name isn't important-it'e the people.

By joining Lazarus, we will be able to raid Kara -together as friends- and also have enough guild members to progress to Grul when we're ready.

Michael, their GM, is ex-TDH & Hugoniot's brother. I know him well- I helped him attune at BM. He is a good guy.

You-our members-said we had to do something. You were right & we have.

This way- no-one is left abandoned-unlike when TDH disbanded & unlike when Illuminati hit its problems 3 weeks ago.

For all theses reasons, I support the move to Lazarus & hope we will all join tohether.

well i think we can do it , and i want to go forward becouse this is my first guild that i have tasted big and heavy instances and i want to move on becouse i love it and i hope that all memebers of illuminatie can join to so we can stick togheter.

so big boldy says [b]go for it

just give it a try

Well I'm not negative about this. I came back to help the people in this guild but i dont mind what name is above the're heads.

Just stick togetther and it will all turn out good i think.

Lets go start raiding and down hole Karahzan again like we use to do, have fun and hopefully be verry welcome in Lazarus, (OMG this almost means totally drunk in dutch).

Let us know how you feel about it so we can make plans and stuff

By the way, guys, Lazarus website is http://lazarus.hopto.org

hmm i read they have 80 active members... and only one kara team, im comfused

We have 55 and CANT get 1 team going - still confused?



As per the move - I have talked extensively with all the officers and we decided we would do nothin until we know all of your thoughts, fears, questions etc etc. I DO support this move though and wish to stay with all of you, raid with all of you and progress with all of you. Alot of you are my friends and Rafe is right, my freinds are more important than the gear, but, I do wanna see US get the chance to see new areas and ALL improve our gear.

We have 55 with alts and not all are active... i think we have about 35 active accoutns... but anyway, i support the move too, and i hope that everyone who wants to move can move. A lot of us is on vacation and i will leave again on monday and will be gone for about two weeks.

Yo thecount here, lately ive seen happen what happened, and i didnt like it, wanna raid to sometimes, but unfortunatly i wasnt able or raids were cancelled.
I have in all officers my faith, and i trust that the move will improve our game, so im in for the move, and to meet new friends and to raid again

only thing that is twisting my mind is wether i take my hunter or my warr as main

greets Thecount/dothuh